Maksymalne napięcie zasilania dla urządzeń elektronicznych bez uprawnień?

Mon Mar 15, 2004 3:49 am   

On Sat, 13 Mar 2004 10:20:17 +0100, "neuron" <neuron@zzzzipnet.com.pl>
wrote:


AFAIR odwrotnie: 24V AC i 48V DC - nie wiem jak jest ze znakiem
bezpieczeństwa, ale kiedyś napięcie bezpieczne było chyba 25V/60V.

--
Pozdrawiam
Bartek

Jeśli chcesz mi odpowiedzieć, usuń swinkę z mojego adresu.

Mon Mar 15, 2004 5:05 am   

Widzę, że wszyscy tu taaacy mądrzy... A czy któryś z tych
mądrych czytał te bzdurne dyrektywy, samodzielnie wyszukiwał
właściwe normy "zharmonizowane" i na koniec płacił za badania
z własnej kieszeni?
Nagle okazuje się, że zrobienie nawet dużego projektu to pryszcz
w porównaniu z czekającymi później barierami biurokratycznymi.
Żeby było jasne - nie jestem przeciwko normom, urządzenia
sumiennie poddawałem badaniom, również homologacyjnym,
ale zawsze była furtka dla dupereli. Chętnym proponuję samodzielne
wystawienie "deklarację zgodności" dla LED-a zasilanego z bateryjki
przez oporniczek.
To jest chore.
TG

Mon Mar 15, 2004 3:58 pm   

Użytkownik "Tomasz Gumny" <tgumny@@idn.org.pl> napisał w wiadomości
news:c32hdt$h6c$1@atlantis.news.tpi.pl...

Tu masz zupełną rację i moje poparcie.
Po czasach "techników" nadszedł czas "biurokratów".
Dokumentacja i certyfikacja to w tej chwili najbardziej skomplikowana i
kosztowna cześć każdego małego projektu w małej firmie.
Biurokraci górą
Banan też musi mieć krzywiznę zgodną z normą

Tue Mar 16, 2004 12:01 am   

Użytkownik "Tomasz Gumny" <tgumny@@idn.org.pl> napisał w wiadomości
news:c32hdt$h6c$1@atlantis.news.tpi.pl...

Teoretycznie do dyrektywy EMC są jeszcze wytyczne jak ją stosować. Te
wytyczne miały ujednolicić rozumienie dyrektywy przez wszystkich
(producentów, ustawodawców, ciała kompetentne (competent body tak
sobie tłumaczę), kontrolerów, ...), a co z tego wyszło to nie wiem
(nie czytałem jeszcze aktualnych u nas ustaw - brak czasu). W tych
wytycznych jest napisane, (między innymi) że nie ma sensu robienie
grającej widokówki odpornej na wszystko, bo nikt nie zapłaci za nią 5
razy więcej aby mieć gwarancję, że nawet w pobliżu komórki się nie
zająknie w swojej melodyjce. Dyrektywa w zasadzie określa, że
urządzenie ma nie zakłócać i nie być zakłócane w wystarczającym
stopniu (to już jest trochę moja interpretacja). Tylko kto ma określać
ten stopień, dla takich przypadków jak ta kartka i podobnych. Sądzę,
że jak zawsze z interpretacją przepisów - będzie więcej interpretacji
niż prawników.
Dokładnie stosując dyrektywę to jak się jest radioamatorem to wolno se
zrobić radiostację, ale pipka-dręczyciela już nie, bo nie został
wykluczony spod jej działania.
W połowie 2001 poświęciłem 2 miesiące aby się zorientować w temacie
CE. Wychodzi na to, że bez sensu, bo ostatnio się dowiedziałem, że od
tamtej pory nasze prawo w tym temacie zmieniło się 3 razy (może
więcej) i jeszcze nie jest stabilne (jeśli kiedykolwiek będzie).
Jakiś czas temu pobrałem sobie nową wersję dyrektywy EMC. Myślałem, że
to już działa. Niestety to jest tylko projekt. Ta nowa jest
rozsądniejsza (ale jeszcze nad nią popracują i będzie jaka będzie). W
starej jest tak: albo stosuje się normy (co oznacza konieczność
przeprowadzenia badań za ok. 6000 PLN), albo się ich nie stosuje -
tworzy się "technical file", ale to wymaga udziału "competent body" co
kosztuje jeszcze więcej. Dotychczasowa praktyka: normy - 95%, file -
5%.
W nowej jest tak, że "technical file" producent może zrobić sam.
Uznali, że od 96 roku producenci już zrozumieli o co biega w EMC. Do
tego jest wyliczenie ile to producenci na tym zaoszczędzą, co się
przelicza na miejsca pracy, a ogólnym celem jest konkurencyjność
względem USA.
Słyszałem, że kiedyś w firmach państwowych robiło się projekty
specjalnie złe (bo to w ramach pensji), a potem zgłaszało się wnioski
racjonalizatorskie, z wyliczeniem ile to da oszczędności.
Wynagrodzenie za wniosek jakoś się miało do tych wyliczeń.
To uzasadnienie zmian w dyrektywie przypomina mi ten model. Trzeba
zrozumieć ludzi w komisjach Unii. Oni zarabiają "tylko" jakieś 5 000
Euro netto na miesiąc, a muszą z czegoś żyć i jakoś wykazać się, że
coś robią (opinie, analizy, wyliczenia, wnioski, poprawki i w końcu
nowa wersja dyrektywy). To samo z normami.
Idea CE jest ogólnie słuszna (komunizm też) - aby nie było barier w
handlu. Ale każdą ideę da się różnie zrealizować.
Od zawsze były wnioski, aby dyrektywa wymagała tylko nie zakłócania
innych (na pewno tańsze badania), a odporność to problem jakości.
Producent pracuje sobie sam na swoją markę i potem odpowiednio się
ceni. Ale te wnioski systematycznie przepadają. Niby chodzi o ochronę
biednego klienta, bo jak ma sprawdzić, czy jest odporne. Ja tam sądzę,
że chodzi o pieniądze dla biurokracji i jej pochodnych.
Jedyna nadzieja, że faktycznie zależy im na konkurencji z USA i
dorozumieją, że podcinają gałąź na której siedzą. Tylko czy tego
dożyjemy?

Ponarzekałem i jest mi lżej. Zapraszam innych - to pomaga.

Piotr

Tue Mar 16, 2004 5:41 am   

Użytkownik "Piotr" <piotr.galka@micromade.pl> napisał w wiadomości
news:4055d31f@news.home.net.pl...

Kasa, kasa, kasa.... za pierdzenie w stołek, bo wyprodukowanie czegokolwiek
pożytecznego jest kłopotliwe, to producentom warto trochę "uszczknąć"
(oprócz podatków i akcyz wszelakich) wydając nakazy , certyfikaty itp.

Sat Mar 20, 2004 4:35 pm   

ziel napisal(a):


Skad wiesz, ze w kbuku jestwrzatek jesli kubek jest z zewnetrz zimny?

--
Pozdrowienia, Marcin E. Hamerla

"Every day I make the world a little bit worse."

Sat Mar 20, 2004 5:01 pm   

ziel napisal(a):


Skad wiesz, ze w kubku jest wrzatek jesli kubek jest z zewnetrz zimny?

--
Pozdrowienia, Marcin E. Hamerla

"Every day I make the world a little bit worse."

Sat Mar 20, 2004 7:58 pm   

J.F. napisal(a):


Nooo, z eskpresu cisnieniowego nie zawsze wychodzi super-wrzatek.

--
Pozdrowienia, Marcin E. Hamerla

"Every day I make the world a little bit worse."

Sat Mar 20, 2004 7:59 pm   

On Sat, 20 Mar 2004 10:01:40 +0100, Marcin E. Hamerla wrote:

A co moze byc w kubku jesli kupujesz swiezo parzona kawe :-)

J.

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